tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32570460.post546608735018843198..comments2024-03-13T07:34:24.149+00:00Comments on The Age of Uncertainty: Music For Grown-UpsSteerforthhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07627936539372313828noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32570460.post-59632392212972350782015-10-13T14:21:33.718+00:002015-10-13T14:21:33.718+00:00Leaving aside film and music for a moment. The nov...Leaving aside film and music for a moment. The novel on which Cruel Sea is based is probably one of the greatest, and frequently under-rated, war novels ever written.Resolute Readerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05543167556221747469noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32570460.post-81306040672176106202015-10-10T07:15:58.265+00:002015-10-10T07:15:58.265+00:00Well observed, Steerforth. It's one of my all-...Well observed, Steerforth. It's one of my all-time favourites, too.Martinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13494219959077922220noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32570460.post-13747782007631264782015-10-09T09:05:02.646+00:002015-10-09T09:05:02.646+00:00Paul - Interesting that the source is acknowledged...Paul - Interesting that the source is acknowledged, although I still think it sounds uncannily like the beginning of the 10th.<br /><br />Kathryn - Yes, that's a very imaginative use of music. Quite bonkers on one level, but it adds to the film's sense of alienation. Having a moment of high drama accompanied by that strangely banal tune works brilliantly.Steerforthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07627936539372313828noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32570460.post-27947178785418909012015-10-09T06:47:15.744+00:002015-10-09T06:47:15.744+00:00I was reminded of the score for The Third Man the ...I was reminded of the score for The Third Man the other day. A stroke of brilliance<br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07843179493508465760noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32570460.post-7318293951087815022015-10-07T14:37:09.958+00:002015-10-07T14:37:09.958+00:00You're close with Shostakovich; the overture f...You're close with Shostakovich; the overture for Star Trek VI is supposed to be based on Stravinsky's Firebird.Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02317875604003625727noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32570460.post-45629599945405341512015-10-06T17:03:43.951+00:002015-10-06T17:03:43.951+00:00Mahlerman - Yes, I often hear fragments of careful...Mahlerman - Yes, I often hear fragments of carefully disguised classical works, for example, the beginning to this <i>Star Trek</i> film rips of the first movement of Shostakovich's 10th, before moving on to Holst's Mars - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GT-wunjnEXA <br /><br />I agree that Arnold was underrated. Fortunately, works like the 5th symphony are now being treated with the respect they deserve, as well as the film music, but it's too late for Arnold. Some of the contemporary reviews of performances I've read are shockingly hostile and ignorant. <br /><br />John Williams' music certainly isn't a patch on his predecessors, but I can't help wondering if he was compelled to be bland by the demands of Hollywood. Jerry Goldsmith's scores for films like <i>The Illustrated Man, Planet of the Apes</i> and <i>Patton</i> were marvellous and highly original, but the music he wrote after 1980 is generally dull (although nowhere near as bad as James Horner and Howard Shore). <br /><br />As far as Rawthorne's concerned, I admire his strong, individual voice - I can tell I'm listening to a Rawsthorne piece within seconds, but it rarely touches the spot. I don't know why. Steerforthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07627936539372313828noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32570460.post-68975681960544998252015-10-06T16:36:14.502+00:002015-10-06T16:36:14.502+00:00Joan - Yes, it's ridiculous, and the louder an...Joan - Yes, it's ridiculous, and the louder and longer it gets, the less impact the music has.Steerforthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07627936539372313828noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32570460.post-19692351458324436182015-10-06T15:59:01.261+00:002015-10-06T15:59:01.261+00:00Restraint, and an absolute refusal to follow the t...Restraint, and an absolute refusal to follow the trodden path were the hallmarks of this not-quite-great British master. I don't feel the black & white-v-colour question is particularly relevant, but what is unquestionably true is the tiresome obsession in many American films with smothering the visuals in music telling us how we are supposed to be feeling (afraid, excited & etc) - this, along with trying to sell us something we have already bought. Rawsthorne (and RVW and others) created music that was woven into the very fabric of film. Today's so-called superstars of the genre - John Williams, say, or the late James Horner - are creative pigmies compared with, say, Copland or Arnold (another wildly underrated composer) and, as many know, plagiarism is not the least of their crimes. If you are musically 'clever', you can hide Shostakovich, Mahler, Richard Strauss et al under a bit of slick orchestration; simples. mahlermanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14469854614938507153noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32570460.post-35638430822996051532015-10-06T12:50:10.825+00:002015-10-06T12:50:10.825+00:00My husband and I have noticed that the 'backgr...My husband and I have noticed that the 'background' music in many films and television shows these days is so loud that it overwhelms the dialog. joan.kylerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17015342608992682333noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32570460.post-46679580540616576782015-10-06T11:48:50.682+00:002015-10-06T11:48:50.682+00:00Chris - I think both Spielberg and Lucas reacted t...Chris - I think both Spielberg and Lucas reacted to the modernism of their youth, hankering back to the films they loved as children. Lucas cited the dreadful <i>Flash Gordon</i> as an influence. Spielberg is a tragic case, in that he has never topped the brilliance of his first film - <i>Duel</i>.<br /><br />MikeP - Odd how old-fashioned the intro sequence seems - it wasn't that long ago. But I think the bombast began in the 80s and really hit it's stride in the 90s, with nonsense like <i>Braveheart</i>. The Coplandesque sound, which I suppose Copland fashioned from Stravinsky and folk tunes, probably set the tone for most American film and TV music for decades and I rather like it.<br /><br />Brett - Thanks. Glad you liked it. <br /><br />PAL - I agree that the appeal of Rawsthorne wears thin after a while. I have a CD of his symphonies and they can feel a little relentless. The 2nd Symphony - the 'Pastoral' - is particularly bleak, from start to finish. But as you say, the music perfectly captures the sense of quiet resignation that must have pervaded life in wartime Britain, particularly during the early years. <br /><br />The main theme of the film is particularly good and all credit must go to Philip Lane for recreating the score by ear, after the original sheet music had been lost.Steerforthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07627936539372313828noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32570460.post-9374242294524537982015-10-06T07:14:46.310+00:002015-10-06T07:14:46.310+00:00I'm glad you like the spirit of The Cruel Sea ...I'm glad you like the spirit of The Cruel Sea and Rawsthorne's perfectly matched film score as much as I've always done. Rawsthorne belonged to a generation of composers suspicious of the Elgarian grand gesture, and his very distinctive musical language always undercuts it - passages like the main title music for the film are about the nearest he gets to it. It's very British in its understatement.I find the downbeat ambience can be irritating over a long work, but it's perfectly matched to the dour anti-heroism of the film. I've always thought The Cruel Sea embodies very accurately what most British people must have felt about the war at the time - a nasty, drab, endless business that had to be seen through - and epitomised in the way Jack Hawkins rages against "This bloody war".PALhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00463433724546906805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32570460.post-72985441108145655972015-10-06T03:22:58.374+00:002015-10-06T03:22:58.374+00:00Wonderful, thanks for your commentary and the clip...Wonderful, thanks for your commentary and the clips.Bretthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09389916070547430075noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32570460.post-15788278098444700632015-10-05T22:50:55.082+00:002015-10-05T22:50:55.082+00:00Excellent post, Steerforth. Makes me long for the ...Excellent post, Steerforth. Makes me long for the days when proper composers - eg Walton and Arnold as well as RVW and Rawsthorne - did film scores.<br /><br />I have a theory that the current fashion for bombastic, often rather martial scores came in with The West Wing. Have a listen to the theme on YouTube if you can bear it, and you can hear echos of dozens of film scores since. Fake Aaron Copland.MikePhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08589363260977274335noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32570460.post-15456172963716656582015-10-05T22:18:18.766+00:002015-10-05T22:18:18.766+00:00Steerforth - I'm only half-serious, although I...Steerforth - I'm only half-serious, although I have to say that the '60s and '70s, in general, aren't my favorite movie era, at least in regards to American film. (I just think, for instance, of the difference in quality between the much-ballyhooed Julie Christie version of Far from the Madding Crowd and the recent Carey Mulligan version, which I think is much, much better, although no one seems to agree with me.) Sixties-era films often seem to me to be too impressed with their own cleverness. But once Spielberg and Lucas came along things only got worse, honorable exceptions always aside.<br /><br />My favorite movie in the last few years, Ida, is black-and-white.Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06485410374923842372noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32570460.post-60857494138429692962015-10-05T21:30:00.387+00:002015-10-05T21:30:00.387+00:00Chris - I wouldn't go that far. The early colo...Chris - I wouldn't go that far. The early colour era saw some wonderful films and the cinematography was often particularly striking as the directors were exploring the challenges of a new medium. The 1960s and early 70s were a golden age for quirky, unusual films, e.g John Schlesinger's <i>Sunday, Bloody Sunday</i>. But by the late 70s, a new conservatism had definitely taken over - perhaps the VCR was putting more pressure on the industry, or maybe the talent was moving into television. I don't know.<br /><br />Roger - I agree, the music is relentless and it's usually incredibly banal, with some dreadful anthem on the strings accompanied by Lion King-style percussion, as if we need to be told what to feel because the narrative isn't up to it. Vaughan Williams wrote some wonderful film scores, but I'm not sure that he completely understood its role - apparently, when he watched <i> Scott of the Antarctic</i>, he was quite put out that the actors kept talking over his music!Steerforthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07627936539372313828noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32570460.post-4203716224124731802015-10-05T18:26:35.071+00:002015-10-05T18:26:35.071+00:00" I'm one of those grumps who think that ..." I'm one of those grumps who think that the introduction of color was the beginning of the end."<br /><br />The great Russian film-maker Alexei German said that sound had come into movies a hundred years too soon and colour two hundred years too soon.<br /><br />The other problem with music in contemporary films is it doesn't stop. I was watching The Loves of Joanna Gooden with music by Ralph Vaughan Williams recently and the surprising thing is how little music there is and how carefully it's placed. I'd guess that - as with Rawsthorne, himself a distinguished composer - they were paid and then allowed to choose what to do, whereas modern scores are probably paid for by the minute.Roger Allenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11012987757094423896noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32570460.post-63123588955938476822015-10-05T14:47:21.423+00:002015-10-05T14:47:21.423+00:00I think a lot of things went wrong with the movies...I think a lot of things went wrong with the movies beginning with Star Wars — but then I'm one of those grumps who think that the introduction of color was the beginning of the end. In any case, I'm putting The Cruel Sea on my to-watch list.Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06485410374923842372noreply@blogger.com